On BBC R4 Today, Evan Davis chaired a debate between Miliband and Hague on Europe. Well, it wasn't quite a debate, as such, but they were both on at the same time, and they were both given an opportunity to have their say.
As you'd expect, Miliband said Europe is good because it means we get to tackle those famous "global issues".
And Hague said Europe could be good, but not the way Labour have been surrendering all our freedoms and cash to it.
And Miliband said that Hague was being ridiculous conjuring up the Superstate bogeyman, and anyway, the Tories mainly wanted to get into bed with a load of East European homophobes.
And Hague said Labour had lied to the British people about the EU constitution referendum, and that Labour's much vaunted "influence over our partners" doesn't exist.
Anyway, at one point, an exasperated Davis pointed out that exactly the same discussion could have taken place at any time over the last 40 years: why have we not progressed?
Interesting. Because out here, we know precisely why (and in fairness, Hague did sort of suggest he knows too).
The reason is that it's the Commissariat who have driven the entire European project, not the people. Right from the moment Ted took us in, the Commissariat have consistently moved us much further along the integrationist road than most of us want. Their entire approach has been to push us forward, generally under cover of darkness.
Since that one referendum in 1975 (which we thought was about a free trade area) we have been given no effective say in the matter. Our wishes have been ignored - or at least, sidelined as an unhelpful obstacle to be got round by fair means or foul.
And it only takes a moment to think of many other issues where the majority view has been entirely ignored by the Commissariat, such as:
- Criminal justice - most people want far tougher sentences for serious crime than the lib Commissars are prepared to countenance, including - still - the restoration of capital punishment for the worst murders (abolished in the sixties against the clear view of the majority)
- Immigration - over the last decade, immigration has escalated wildly, with an extraordinary two and-a-half million non-British migrants coming in (net - eg see this blog); and contrary to commissariat assertions, it has not made us richer, although it has put huge pressure on public services, and made life more difficult for the immigrants already here
- Global warming - so far, the commissariat programme to cut carbon emissions has been presented as being big benefit and small cost, so no wonder it seems popular; but as the true burden of green tax and regulation becomes apparent, and as we enjoy those long promised warm summers, we will discover this is yet another area where the commissars have entirely failed to convince the people
This is the Daily Mail talking, and therefore to be ignored?
You know, that's exactly what the Commissars say.